What is at the Centre of Your World? #7

By Piper Delilah / May 2025

A Conversation with Moses Osei

(Interviewed outside a pub in Kings Cross)

Piper: Alright, what is at the centre of your world?

Moses: (laughs) The centre of my world is me. I think it’s important for it to be only you. I think the answers in the title I guess, if you are not the centre of your own world, then whose world is it? You know?

Piper: Would you say you’re vain?

Moses: Am I vain? In moments. Yeah, and you?

Piper: Yeah. I think so [we both laugh] but only because I've got a lot of compliments recently so my vanity is being boosted in a way that I half believe it in half don’t.

Moses: Why half and half?

Piper: Like, at Elska’s party the other day, I was talking to this girl Vic and we were looking in the eye, really in conversation, then she turned around and said, ‘You are really beautiful, you know that right?’ And my energy totally shifted, and then she said, ‘You don't believe that do you?’

Moses: And what is it that you don't believe about that?

Piper: You can never see your own face, I don't think you're meant to see your own face.

Moses: Would you ever want to see your own face?

Piper: Yeah, but I think I'd be brought back down to earth.

Moses: No, no, why?

Piper: I also think beauty is in eyes. When you are talking to someone and their eyes light up, that to me, regardless of what you look like, as soon as somebody's eyes light up they immediately become beautiful.

Moses: Your pupils dilate don't they.

Piper: To say it more of a crass way your eyes sparkle, they glimmer. I always think you can see the heart through the eyes, you can see everything through the eyes.

Moses: What is it... the eyes are the gateway to the soul. That's why I always wear glasses...

Piper:... So nobody can see your soul.

Moses: Anytime, anywhere, sunglasses on, and they’re like oh, why do you got your sunglasses on in the dark? 'cause that's your way in.

Piper: What do you first notice about people when you first meet them?

Moses: First notice... Teeth.

Piper: Why?

Moses: I don't know. I don't know why.

Piper: Well I'm lucky I've got good teeth because now I am self-conscious because I'm smiling.

Moses: I don't know, yeah, teeth, yeah, I think it says a lot. Some people are quite happy with their teeth, some people aren't. Not that either is wrong but I just think it's a big indicator with the person thats sat before you, if they're happy with what is there. An indicator of who the person is without saying very much.

Piper: Yeah but you have nice teeth, so it's quite easy for you to say.

Moses: No no, I don't have nice teeth, I just have teeth. [Points at teeth] this one is dead, this one is finished, these one’s are coming out, this one’s coming out, and I have two gold ones potentially at some point.

Piper: That's cool.

Moses: Yeah these two are finished. I don't know why teeth... but I guess it's because you stare at them.

Piper: Yeah and I guess if people are smiling it's something you pick up on.

Moses: Yeah, because I wouldn't say eyes.

Piper: Really? Do you look at people in the eyes though?

Moses: Quite a lot.

(Then look at each other in eyes and laugh.)

Piper: It's a hard thing to do but I'm getting better at it.

Moses: What do they say... that you should look your partner in the eyes and just basically hold a stare whilst talking, they say it's a way of forming deeper connection. That could be complete hearsay.

Piper: Wow, it's funny we talk about this, because I made someone do that this weekend... They got it, they didn't get what I was saying beforehand but as soon as we did it, he understood.

Moses: Silent communication.

Piper: What do you hope people first notice about you when they meet you?

Moses: What appearance?

Piper: Anything?

Moses: My honesty. I try to be as honest as I can. It's fair, but also it's from a kind place, I'm not trying to like, tear you down. It's always from a kind place. But I think they go hand in hand, I would like for people to feel like oh, they honestly like me or they honestly don't. It’s not like a thing where they are like,  oh they are mad or because of X,Y,Z. No, I have told you why it is, it’s not cryptic, I would hate to be a cryptic person. But I think people are used to being all cryptic. So when they do meet honesty, they become like ummm, your lying. No, I’m not. I say to people, why would I need to lie?

Piper: I have great question but figuring how to word it. Me and Elska have been talking about it recently. It’s kind of about vanity, but something you know to be true. Do you feel as though when you meet people in a certain circumstance and they are in awe of you…

 …..

(Drunken Man interrupts by falling over by our table outside a pub.)

Moses: Take a seat catch your feet.

(Drunken man mumbles.)

Moses: Too many drinks?

Drunken Man: In a way.

Moses: Finish work, had a couple of bevs?

Drunken Man: Yeh mate, but in a way mate, I went to like the solicitors today, the worst, you what I mean like.

Moses: Difficult people at the best of times (repeats twice)

Drunken Man: Most horrible people, you what I mean like. Honestly like.

Moses: Where you from?

(Drunken Man responds but only mumbles)

Moses: Ok south London, And you grew up there? How long you been living there? You still living there?

Drunken Man: No no.. (motorbike drives past loud and it becomes impossible to hear the man’s mumbles) Fucking hell mate, like fucking hell.

Moses: It’s a tough world, tough times.

Drunken Man: Huhhh?

Moses: Super tough.

Drunken Man: It’s fucking bad, you know what I mean, it’s fucking bad, it’s fucking crazy. You know what I mean? It’s crazy. Like the injustice.

Moses: It never stops getting crazier, it only gets crazier.

Drunken Man: Honestly mate, you what I mean like. The injustice, fucking hell it’s crazy. I don’t even… fuck.

Moses: Crazy.

Drunken Man: Crazy. It’s like really crazy. I said to them you know what I mean like.

(The mumbling conversation goes on for six minutes, just a repetition of the conversation you have read above, a lot of ‘crazy’ a lot of slurred words. He eventually asked us for directions to the train station, but given his state we were very unsure as to whether he ever made it. It was only seven in the evening. He trips over again walking off.)

 ……..

Piper: Crazy.

Moses: Crazy.

Piper: Crazy. He said crazy like thirty times.

Moses: Yeh he said injustice about thirty-four times. I don’t know what injustice he was talking about, all I know is he went to the solicitors. I thought, do I dare ask why? Or do I just keep it at a crazy level.

Piper: I think just keep at that level.

Moses: I thought because that is when opinions start coming out, that’s when it starts getting into a crazy world.

Piper: Ok, my question. I feel as though you are like me, Elska and Xan in this way, when you meet people and you have these moments when people think wow, this is so cool, do you feel as though it happens to you all the time, but for them only a couple of times?

Moses: Yes. I had this conversation with me and my friend, I think people.. the spectacle or the amazement of a moment has become so regular for me and my friends, that people naturally gravitate towards. They are like oh my gosh, this is insane. But for me, it’s like every day.

Piper: But for everyone else it’s like a rarity.

Moses: Literally. It’s so many times when we are out, with someone we have even met through someone. We will be going from one place to the next place and they will get caught up, them like ahh this is so sick. But for us, this is just how it goes. Yeh definitely.

Piper: We have been talking about it recently… I won’t say anymore actually because it is something that happened recently. Maybe I should be more open… it happened last weekend, you know I wrote a whole piece about it two nights ago till about three O’clock in the morning. It was about two moments that link. Me and Elska were talking about the moment that happened at her party, I said ‘To that person it’ was maybe one seriously spectacular evening, but for me it happens fairly often..’

Moses: It’s just another night with friends.

Piper: Yeh.

Moses: Yeh.

Piper: Every time you walked into a room, if a song played, what would the song be?

Moses: Let me look because I was listening to the song on the way here. I am going to try my best to find it. (Looks through phone) The problem is I am terrible with pronunciations, oh actually… so many so many. Cannock Chase, Labi Siffre.

Piper: Why that song?

Moses: It’s just a really beautiful song. It’s sampled I believe in some other tracks as well. I don’t know, there is just a feeling to it. I was literally just cycling to it and bopping around, thinking yeh… this is the feeling, this feels like an anthem.

Piper: Where do you get your kicks? I mean kicks because they should feel like kicks, it can be anything from people, or music…

Moses: Music.

Piper: Okay, anything else? We can expand on music…

Moses: Definitely people. But I think that’s dependent on the moment. That’s dependent off circumstance, sometimes there is a kick happening but you are just with friends.

Piper: The energy is up.

Moses: Yeh, but it doesn’t necessarily mean the kick is happening. But with music, there is always a kick. Always.

Piper: Making music or listening to music.

Moses: Making music, listening to music, writing music. It’s all. When the breakthrough comes, or when you hit the point of cool, we got something. That’s when I get the kick. It’s the same when you are listening to a track, ok, I’m here.

Piper: I found a track the other day, classic artist’s, Alabaster Deplume, but it’s this one song called Fucking Let Them, it has poetry at the start then cuts into this mad trumpet, drums. That’s a kick.

Moses: Send me that. I will listen. I have two songs now. You already sent me on the list… angels…

Piper: 13 Angels Standing Guard’ Round the Side of Your Bed.

Moses: I still haven’t listened to it. You said in brackets when the moment is right. The moment has not yet been right. I don’t want to listen to it in a fleeting way. I want to listen to it and be like I’m here. Volume one-hundred.

Piper: It really has to be the right moment. I was going through old work the other day and found a short story I wrote about that song and Cats Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut. You read it?

Moses: No.

Piper: It’s about the atomic bomb and religion. He mocks religion through a made-up religion called Bokononism. Bokononism is abit like Fight Club, the first rule of Fight Club is you don’t talk about Fight Club. It’s the same, but they have all these words and terms. For example, Busy-busy-busy means destiny is in motion. When you naturally find your people, you find your karass. You can have different karass’, but for example, Me, Elska and Xan, we are a karass. Your process of making music, is it long, short, how do you get from A to B? How do you start, how do you end?

Moses: So many questions I have no answers to! How do I get there? There are so many ways. Sometimes I just turn everything on and let’s see. Other times it’s like, this is how I am feeling, how can we emulate this. Sometimes it’s like, I will have a month of chaos, I will just make with no real purpose, at then come the end of the month I will see what I have. Like I did that for about a year, then have like three-hundred and something tracks. Probably more. Listening through all of them, thinking ok, do we have a story that feels honest? But I feel like that’s constantly changing though, the more I understand, the more I learn. The Process will be more defined and way less chaotic, now it’s let’s almost throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. That’s kind of the process at the minute, not like other artists who ‘go off and reflect’. The writing is a more thought-out process, it’s again, just feeling. When I hear a sound it’s like, ok cool, what can I tie that with, what else can go with that? It’s very feeling-based, which is why it’s so chaotic.

Piper: When you listen back to your own tracks, does it inflict a certain feeling from when you were making it? Or does it inflict a certain memory? Or both?

Moses: Feelings, but also like… No, feeling. But very visual.

Piper: So memories?

Moses: Kind of, but it’s dependent. It can be so vague, sometimes the memory can build over time but it always starts from ok, I want to achieve a feeling other times I can attach it to a moment and it becomes that’s it! That tells me that the track is complete, when I can place the feeling with a moment. That’s it. It comes into one, then it’s a track. But it always starts with something, whether it be hurt, anger, sadness, happiness. The first thing that has to be alive in there is a feeling, otherwise if can’t find that…

Piper: It’s like when I met you at the Livin’Room, I went there with a girl called Lizzy and I was very late and wasn’t going to go. I was listening to everyone read like ok, yeah, kind of fun. But then as soon as you read, you had feeling, felt the whole thing. Same with the poems you write for the paper. I don’t feel like you are contriving anything, you are just riffing. Which I love.

Moses: It’s pen to paper and to a moment.

Piper: I hate the term Flow-state, but that’s what you embody.

Moses: I think it’s just connected. It’s the truest form of connection to a moment, then being able to communicate it. It’s true, again as writers and artists we are guilty of trying to sing to and dance.

Piper: Do you think you have grabbed hold of the thing you are trying to grab hold of when creating?

Moses: No, I think that is the exciting part for me. I think when I have grabbed it, that’s when I will stop. Because for me, that means I have done it. The excitement is getting to it.

Piper: What if you do it, get it, and want to do it again.

Moses: There is no… again, it won’t be the same as the first time. that is how people get addicted to drugs. That’s called an addiction at that point… don’t get me wrong, I will still continue to make from a fun perspective, maybe I will pivot the angle from which I am doing it from, but I don’t think it will be quite the same as initially getting hold of it.

Piper: Is there any writer you have read, where you thought, yep, they reached it, in their own sphere but you are simply an onlooker?

Moses: It will be opinion-based, I personally believe, James Baldwin. He is religious but also doesn’t follow a religion. He is all of these things but they are so self-determined, not based upon anybody else. It was for him to go and find… that is why he went to Paris and all of these places, it was a search for self-definition. To me that’s it. He wrote in that same way, he was at Martin Luther King’s funeral, He was kind of everywhere.

Piper: It’s like the quote I saw on the internet the other day, as crass as it is…

Moses: Live. Love. Laugh.

Piper: If you can see the path it means you are on then it belongs to somebody else.

Moses: Yes!

Piper: I am sticking with that right now. I see no path, I feel totally lost. But if I saw a path I would be following somebody else’s.

Moses: That is one of the… that is one of the affirmations I actively put out there, of like, I am on my own path. I am creating a path for someone after me and there was no one before me. Very much about kind of commitment to it, and knowing it’s not going to be easy, but I understand that this is your path. If it was easy, it was someone else’s.

Piper: Yeh, no thanks.

Moses: No thanks, I’ll pass.

Piper: I’ll pass.

Moses: That is one of affirmations, I am on my own path, I am making my own path.

Piper: What do you think makes someone beautiful?

Moses: Kindness. It’s all soul-based, that’s the truth. It’s not appearance. When it comes down to it, it’s kindness.

Piper: What makes somebody kind?

Moses: What makes somebody kind… communication, honesty, kindness, caring, it’s balance, it’s so many things. Kindness is the ability to put something first but also not before you.

Pipers: But now you are talking about selflessness, do you think any act is truly selfless?

Moses: Can be, I think I can be selfless. If I am doing something, I am not expecting anything in return. It’s simply to do it because I want to or to help. I don’t care about the game.

Piper: What is the kindest thing you have ever done?

Moses: Bought a Man Wray and Nephew’s the other day because it was his birthday. That is the most recent thing I can think of. It all comes back to you. Kindness.

Piper: I think it is what makes people beautiful. Biggest compliment I can give anybody, and I don’t say it often, but if I say you are one of the kindest I have ever met, it means I think insanely highly of you.

Moses: Noted.

Piper: It’s true.

Moses: It is.

Piper: Not to toot my own horn here, but last year somebody told me I was the kindest person they had ever met, I almost cried. To me that’s it.

Moses: It’s been recognised.

Piper: If I gave you a box of everything you had ever lost, what would you look for first? It can be tangible or intangible.

Moses: Rings. I’ve lost so many rings. So many one-offs from around the world rings. I am not someone who has lost… I only lose clothes and rings and shit, the only things I can think off the top of my head. My phone or wallet are on me, maybe people? Throw people in there?

Piper: You can throw people in there.

Moses: Then maybe people.

Piper: What kind of people?

Moses: A person has gone. I think I would be grateful for a last conversation.

Piper: Why can’t you have the last conversation?

Moses: Because they are gone, essentially.

Piper: Are we talking about physically gone from the earth?

Moses: Yes, death. So if I could get… again… I would probably be worse off having one last conversation, it would probably do more harm than good. But, in an ideal world, yeh one last conversation, there you go. That’s what I would have, out of everything that has been lost, even for a minute.

Piper: I am not going press any further. I know what you are talking about but feel no need to go any further. I already know how many times you have been in love and always ask people but have never asked in an interview. I feel like it’s naughty to start asking now.

Moses: Up to you.

Piper: Yeh, but me and Elska have discussed you (Moses Laughs) we discuss everyone, nahh maybe I won’t say this on here. No, I am trying to be honest… we think maybe you haven’t been in love.

Moses: No I definitely haven’t.

Piper: Oh, I thought you said you had.

Moses: I thought I had yes, but I haven’t, which is the point I was trying to make. Like at the time yes, but upon reflection, no.

Piper: But also no one really knows what Love is, it’s super subjective.

Moses: It’s a state of being, to me it’s a state of being. To be in love.

Piper: With someone?

Moses: Yes, not necessarily with someone, but with that space or that moment. It’s about loving it until you don’t feel love no more then let go. So that could be forever, or for a day, or for a night. For me it’s a state of being, the moment it stops becoming that, that’s no longer love. That’s why I don’t think I have been in love. That’s why upon reflection there was no love there, for a moment, then the moment went.

Piper: Do you think people have been in love with you?

Moses: This is a vain moment isn’t it?

Piper: I don’t think so at all.

Moses: Yes, I think so. But then again who am I to say, because maybe the version of me they were loving would be the most honest version, which is layers. But that’s what I think when I think what version of me did they love. Was it really me, or was it one I wanted them to see.

Piper: What do you want out of your life?

Moses: Peace, happiness, love.

Piper: What does that look like to you?

Moses: It looks peaceful, it looks happy, it looks like being in love. (laughs) It looks fearless. There is an interview with Nina Simone which is ‘What is Freedom?’ That to me is the pinnacle, that is it. If I can operate from a space of no fear, that is the dream. That comes over time and at this moment in time we are still learning. We are still dancing in the dark.

Piper: Do you get shy around people?

Moses: Yes, one-hundred percent.

Piper: A lot of the time?

Moses: All the time. I just mask it very well.

Piper: When was the last time you were shy?

Moses: Probably every day. People don’t see that, I think I am just very good at masking it, I am extremely shy.

Piper: Were you shy at Elska’s party?

Moses: Yeh. Always. That’s the thing, it’s like flooding, forcing yourself through the barrier. I just do that. I am a very very shy person, which is kind of the juxtaposition of modeling. Truly like my inner self is crawling… but my outer self is like hey guys, nice to see you, how you doing?

Piper: How do you feel about seeing your own photograph?

Moses: I am not mad about it, but also I don’t care, that’s my face. I am not going to pick and pull at it, there is no real point, and I have no care to change it. Yeh, that’s my face, some people love it, some people… yeh.

Piper: If I go on any longer I am going to spend a long time transcribing… So your chance to ask whatever you would like back?

Moses: One question? What inspired you to write, was it a moment or a person?

Piper: Two people. One Henry Miller, because when I first read him, oooh I am getting chicken skin. You know he is a sexist, he is vulgar, but I read him and thought, oh the guy is being honest. I had never seen that before. He says things that people won’t even admit to thinking. I was in awe of him for a while, I am striving to not care what other people think. Then the other person was my partner from twenty to twenty-four. When I met him I bought a typewriter, I took it with me to the pub, I put it infront of him and told him to write me a letter. So he wrote me one, he told me to write him back. I did. I got stuck in Kuwait for five days in this weird hotel. I sat and wrote him a letter, it was the best thing I had written up until that point. It now seeps through every single thing I have written since. We wrote back and forth and back and forth. I learned to write through letters. You write to one person and not the world, something I keep preaching. To be honest, shouldn’t owe him a lot, but do. He was the only person who sat there, and when I looked at him, I believed I could be a writer. He was the first person to believe I could do it. We don’t speak now, but sometimes when I am writing, I hold my hand to my heart and think, he would like this, he would find this funny.

Moses: Full stop.